In
That Great Gettin' Up Morning:
An anniversary interview with Barbara Harris (Part
2)
Who are
your allies these days as you work for justice?
B.H.: Well, primarily
my allies are in the church, and I find them in such coalitions as the Consultation,
the Urban Caucus, the Massachusetts Council of Churches and individuals in
the Episcopal Church and other denominations who have a keen sense of justice
issues.
J.W.: Do you find you have allies among progressive male bishops? Is the Urban Bishops' Coalition still a force?
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B.H.: The Urban Bishops' Coalition has gone by the boards. Two of its strongest leaders are no longer in the House--John Walker of Washington, D.C. is dead and Arthur Walmsley of Connecticut is retired. There are still bishops in the House who stand for the progressive values the Urban Bishops' Coalition held up, but they are not a real force, because they are not very organized. And because of the emphasis in recent years on being polite and collegial, I think the progressive bishops are reluctant to take decisive action that might be seen as strategizing. Progressive people, it seems, still want to give a hearing to all sides. Meanwhile, more conservative people tend to ramrod their views through, and that is why they were successful at Lambeth on the anti-gay and anti-women's ordination votes [See TW 9/98, 10/98 and 11/98].
J.W.: When in your work are you the happiest? When do you feel like you're most yourself?
B.H.: When I can address issues of public policy in light of the Gospel. That's when I feel that I am doing what God has called me to do. And that is very fulfilling. I have been absolutely, singularly blessed in the past four years to work with Tom Shaw as my diocesan bishop. The team ministry that we share has opened up many more opportunities for me to be the person that was consecrated 10 years ago than was possible early on in my episcopacy.
J.W.: And preaching is one big piece of that?
B.H.: Yes, it is. I have many opportunities to preach and I try to use those opportunities to the fullest extent and I try to bring into all of my sermons what I feel is the gospel call to justice. So that as I speak to a group about stewardship, I talk about investing in the church, and investing in peace, investing in justice. I consider that God has given me a gift to speak clearly and that it is my responsibility to use that gift.
Who have
been your mentors?
J.W.: In using that
gift you've been an important mentor to many in the church. But who have been
your mentors?
B.H.: I've always looked to my clergy mentors. My rector, Paul Washington; Van Bird, who was so instrumental in my formation as I was preparing for ordination. I consider Sue Hiatt a mentor because of her very clear understanding of ministry and particularly of women's ministry. I count some women of color in other denominations as mentors despite the fact that my personal contact with them is limited, but I have occasions to hear them and read their writings. Women like Delores Williams, Jacqueline Grant, Katie Cannon, Joan Martin, Ella Mitchell.
J.W.: You mention people from other denominations from whom you learn. What do you think the future of denominationalism is? There are some people who are saying a period of post-denominationalism is emerging.
B.H.: That eventually may be true, but I would think it is some years away in that denominations are wedded to preserving institutions and guard them almost jealously. Efforts at ecumenism have been in most instances furtive, without a lot of depth. Even this whole series of covenants and concordats have not really plumbed the depths of being together as Christians in a really meaningful way, in ways that could shape and change things in the world.
J.W.: What would be necessary to get to something like that?
B.H.: For me it would mean a serious commitment to working together in a coalesced effort that didn't require any one group to get credit for what was undertaken and to address issues in a way that our present statements don't do, because our present statements get so watered down as we try to appease all of the constituencies and all the factions involved. If we could do away with watered-down statements and say we're going to roll up our sleeves and take some concerted action that was "full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!" it could make a difference. That to me would be serious ecumenism.
Are young
people taking on the work for justice?
B.H.: I went to a
conference on economic justice recently where younger people played an impressive
role. And a young lawyer I've known from childhood is using his legal abilities
for a coffee cooperative. To see young people like these seriously moving
on issues is a hopeful sign.
If young investment brokers and young lawyers, like my friend, and young people in other professions could come together and look at the stake that we all have in rectifying the power imbalances, the economic imbalances, the environmental imbalances, and the educational imbalances in our communities it would be wonderful. But many of these young people operate outside of the church because for them the church is not willing or able to move in the forceful, dramatic ways that are needed to make a difference. Within the church they're not freed up enough to move the way they see that we need to move to address these issues. I would say that it's because we are wedded to preserving the institution and we are using old models that no longer work. We are so busy trying to make nice, but you cannot temporize with injustice.
J.W.: So you're not seeing that new blood in the church.
B.H.: No. We've missed a generation in the church. In this diocese, we are making a conscious effort to develop leadership among young people who are still with us in the church and to provide a place for them to exercise that leadership. If we can successfully do that, we may hold on to some of these people who are going to be the professionals of a few years hence. We've created a youth leadership academy that begins with sophomores in high school who make a three-year commitment to this program. It's brand new. But if we can help that leadership to develop and emerge and repeat that successfully year after year, by taking a new group of sophomores in high school and keeping them involved by providing meaningful opportunities for them to exercise their gifts for leadership, maybe some new leadership will emerge. And that's where I'm pinning my hopes.
What difference
have women bishops made?
J.W.: The question
that is frequently asked at anniversary moments like this is, what difference
have women bishops made?
B.H.: Oh, I think having women bishops has made a tremendous difference in that compared to the male bishops we tend to be more outspoken, more forthright, more honest in what we say on the occasions that we speak. I think, too, that we tend to demand greater accountability in the dialogue and in addressing issues.
Women have also made a big contribution to the church in other ways, which we musn't overlook. Women scholars, for example, have made a contribution to biblical criticism, to theological reflection, in ways that we did not see a quarter of a century ago. There has also been great cost, great personal cost.
I think about the first 11 women ordained in the Episcopal Church. There was great personal cost to several of them. But they persevered and did not necessarily count that cost. So the gifts that women have brought to the corporate table, not just in the House of Bishops, have been tremendous. The very fact of our presence has made a difference, and I think that the ministry of laywomen has been enlarged and emboldened by women's gains in the ordained ministry.
